I don't mind, you know. Taking care of you and Aloy. I just... Self-preservation is an important instinct. You don't have to suffer for others all the time.
[ said like she's tried to make this point multiple times
The funny thing is, normally I wouldn't suggest anything like this. I would outright refuse to sacrifice us for another team. Especially with Aloy and Claudine in the mix.
I don't mind sacrificing myself for Robin's Egg. But Cricket is no one to us. Granted, we had no reason to give them our worst card, save simple politics, but...
...I felt it was unfair that they were likely to get the worst results from every team. But that alone wouldn't have been enough to choose to risk sacrificing everyone.
[It was about the cultist. And Airi's made her opinion on that clear.
Tryse's leg, thankfully, won't require correction. Just a good splinting. Same for her arms.]
[ Airi kneels down to work on Tryse's leg, and practically hears the unsaid words. ]
I understand why you wanted to try. And I hope it worked. You can say I told you so as much as you want if it does.
[ she goes quiet for a moment, wrestling with herself. ]
When the Odyssey landed on Earth and the Zeniths took me on a mission for the first time, I was excited. I'd never been outside of my room before. They wouldn't let me see anything but... Still, I was excited to serve my purpose. I thought it was a good one, that I was meant to fix Gaia and save the planet, so life could be saved. My own...stupid idealized interpretation of my function.
The first people we encountered were natives. A tribe called the Tenakth. When we saw them, I expected... I don't know, really. Something good. An effort to establish contact with the new humanity.
Instead, they slaughtered the entire scouting party. Erik in particular took joy in doing it in the most brutal ways he could think of. It was...violent. Bloody. Completely inhuman, like the natives were no better than animals. And they did it to every group we found after that. Depending on who was assigned to me, sometimes it was less messy, but it was always horrific.
I had no connection to the new humanity. I'd never been around a single real person to develop any attachment or, I guess, anything to make them mean something to me. I hadn't been taught morals or right from wrong.
But at that moment, I knew what they were. And I knew it was bad. I knew they had to be stopped, even if there was no way to do it.
It only took one mission to see that.
It's been 105 days since the first people were brought here. There have been 37 games.
[She listens, silently. The only thing she does do is move one of her bandaged hands to rest on Airi's shoulder.]
Feels like more, sometimes.
I'm not going to play like this again. This was the first, and only time. Unless he can sit there and tell us that he saw something, doing so would be pure foolishness. Too many people threw too much away.
Besides. Robin's Egg doesn't need a reputation for self-sacrifice. We don't need to be the one people go "It's okay, they'll bus themselves, so we can do it for them" about.
If we got a reputation for it, though... You know how some people vote Mouse, Finch, and Salamander down sometimes because that figure those three are popular enough to take a hit?
Imagine an unpopular team that has the appearance of being willing to take a hit.
Right now, we've sacrificed victory for Mouse in the hostage scenario. And while other members of the team haven't said anything, I still remember having to ask for Crow and Randy to be healed first. And that the only people to check on us afterwards were Hunter and Eddie, the other members didn't even bother to ask how we were.
And now this. But this one will be noticed by more people. They'll ask themselves why. It's here where we've got to make it clear that it isn't going to be a pattern.
Robin's Egg is often overlooked. Aloy feels this way, too. What we do for other people, like the greenhouse, often goes unnoticed or uncommented upon. Some of our offers are ignored simply because they're not instant, convenient fixes. We're not Mouse, with their vast powers and healers. We're not Finch, with their charisma. We don't scare people into not targeting us.
We put in work. But, like when we voted on the top ten teams, we were strictly middling. When it came time to vote for things like best, nicest, cutest, whatever teams, we didn't win a single category. It wasn't even close. Even a brand new team got a win. When our members are hurt, unless a family member steps in, we have to beg for help.
We're so close to being seen as the acceptable target. If we lost Donatello and Raphael, three teams would have no reason not to target us anymore. We can't make alliances with other teams, even with bonds of family and romance. No one will have us.
It's just... It feels like we're on the knife's edge. We don't win games. We don't win hearts. I don't want us to become expendable, and it feels like we're so close already. It would be different if other teams came to us afterwards, to check on us, alleviate the suffering we endure for their sake.
I didn't really think of it that way before, but I don't think you're wrong. If I ever get the chance, I'm going to push for an alliance with Egg, but...
[ will that chance ever come? who knows. ]
I'm surprised you don't play harder to make up for it, I think.
There are members of Mouse who don't understand what an advantage they have. If they lost Paracelsus von Hohenheim, they'd probably plummet in the community's standings. And, I must admit, there's a small part of me who wants them to understand how sheltered they've been by Paracelsus and Catherine Foundling's presences.
You can try. And I know you're pushing for us to be hit less hard, and that's appreciated. But, as Jamil said, even the fact that he has, or had, two lovers on Robin's Egg and Aloy was a presence, you simply have too many teams to avoid targeting and he feels that we're acceptable.
Nevermind how many teams Robin's Egg has to play it soft around because our team has loved ones present on them. Mouse, Snail, Salamander, Chipmunk, Sparrow...
[She sighs, trying as best she can to lean against Airi. Her movement, though, is limited. That spidershell holding her captive.]
I think we should play harder. But there are members of our team who don't want to. They're afraid of what it would do to themselves to stop holding their worst impulses back during games. They want to be heroes. Or, like Claudine, the idea of being cruel to someone actively repulses them.
And me... I want to be someone that Claudine can feel good about loving. We can go hard without being cruel, but so many games demand cruelty to advance...
I keep wondering if Jamil wasn't clear when he explained, or if maybe things have just changed that much so fast.
Because of the truce, the only team we explicitly agree to avoid is Finch. If Salamander and Finch kept feuding...it'd get out of control. It's why I chose to let what Yuzu did go.
Other than that, it's based on who's there and who the options are. We can't hold promises to avoid other teams entirely but we try when possible. Robin's Egg and Snail, right now, I think. I'm not sure if we're still trying to avoid Cricket. And Mouse is...
[ gesturing to indicate the conversation they were just having.
it's so complicated, especially with the recent coming and going.
she stands to support Tryse. ]
I wish I could give you advice, but I really don't know if it'd just be bad. From the sounds of it, some teams think Salamander is cruel. We protect ourselves first.
Edited (sorry for the million ediiiits) 2023-07-16 06:24 (UTC)
This is going to sound ungrateful and cruel of me, but Salamander's reputation for cruelty isn't entirely undeserved.
[She holds up a hand.]
Let me explain.
I've been here for sixteen games now, starting with the King game and ending with this fuck, marry, kill, consume nonsense. On my second game I watched a Salamander spend ten solid minutes, non-stop, breaking every bone in a Finch's body, and then crush her skull. The game didn't demand it. All he had to do was press a button. He did it because he wanted to. In the scavenger hunt, Salamander collected so many extra body parts that they earned a bonus prize for it. They didn't need to. They just did, just as their members needlessly tortured people who couldn't fight back during that game. In the angel dating game, they chose to send an extra harsh scenario towards Chipmunk, who was torn apart as a result. They didn't have to, there was no benefit to it. In the hostage scenario, Salamander kept going even after their hostages had their eyes gouged out, they were disemboweled, one lost a leg, and the other had been killed at least once. In the story game, Salamander won because one of their team violated someone's privacy that much.
Salamander's house is the only one with a moat, ominous black spikes, and it's elevated to put it above other houses. They're the only house that demands other teams pay tribute to enter it. When given the option for a boon, they chose an infinite supply of weaponry.
It sets a tone, Airi. I've been here for only a little over a month now, and all of that has happened within that month. And those are just the things I'm aware of.
In my time here, I've never heard of Salamander doing anything for the community. No greenhouse. No parties. No surprise gifts, as ridiculous as the underwear and the love letter deliveries were. No setting up a clinic or giving first aid lessons. I've never seen them help other teams after a bad game unless it's specific people tied to that specific Salamander by friendship or romance.
If your team made a concerted effort to behave as you do, helping others, reaching out, then perhaps their reputation wouldn't be as strong as it is. As it stands, though, it's a marvel you all don't have targets on your backs. People still consider you to be one of the most popular teams. You won the top ten most popular teams vote, though that was before the scavenger hunt.
There's protecting yourselves first, and no one can blame you for that. But then there's going overboard. And Salamander, from what I've seen, has a consistent record of going overboard.
I don't say this to hurt you. I'm just saying, from the outside looking in, that's what Salamander puts forth.
[ she's already gone around about this with Yuzu, so she doesn't seem entirely surprised at the rundown. ]
Kaz attacking Beatrice was a personal grudge that he was reprimanded for, and led to the truce because the rest of us thought it was wrong.
We had so many extra body parts because nine of us were playing, and most of us ended up with death hangovers because we were killed when we left the house. I decided that if we were going to have to do all of that, we needed to use every part. They said the more parts, the stronger the antidote. There are 78 organs in one human body alone. I can't make any justifications for what Power did, and I won't. That was wrong. But we didn't win the most brutal or cruelest or anything like that. Just number.
I won't try and justify the hostage game. I was there. It got out of control and I couldn't stop it. The story game win was in response to someone on Chipmunk invading a Salamander's privacy first.
The house is for safety and was reactionary. Because despite being told we're so popular, if we stop going hard for a game, everyone else decides we're popular enough to safely hit and we get torn apart. Or they say there's a truce only to team up with another team and destroy us in the first round. That was my second game. Before this scavenger hunt, before anything else that has happened. [ her voice cracks. ] Thanks to Finch we drowned in blood from the first round through the entire game. I can't swim. It was torture, for the entire time. And people just watched and laughed at us.
But no one blames Finch and Sparrow for that. No one says they're cruel or bad because they break truces and hurt us, or because Finch tortured Yuki before we got him back in a hostage game, or anything that's been done to us. If I told them Yuzu tortured me, they probably wouldn't care either. There's members of certain teams I'm sure would think it was funny. Salamander plays hard and wins, so it's okay to do anything to them. They deserve it. They're evil.
[ there's an edge of tears in her voice now, cracking with frustration. ]
It's easy to write us off if you just look at it from the outside. We get called bad for doing things in games that everyone else is doing. If we don't go hard, we get killed. We get betrayed and targeted and hurt, and then when we react, we're criticized for it. But no one cares that we're just trying to survive too. We have to protect ourselves because no one else is going to do it, no matter how popular they claim we are.
You're right. Aloy won most brutal by convincing someone to let her cut his ear off and activating a trauma she didn't realize he had.
[Not actually the case, but Tryse doesn't know about her encounter with Eddie.]
The house may be for safety, though considering no one can enter houses without your permission I'm a little curious as to how it helps, but it does lend an ominous feel to it.
The thing is, many of the reasons for those aren't known by the wider community. So, with repeated actions like that, without knowing that you've been responding to previous offenses or that members were acting as a rogues without approval, you can see why they'd start veering towards a negative opinion. Especially when they don't get a chance to know your team.
You might be able to turn it around, though. Reach out to the community more. Share resources. Offer healing. Throw a party. Offer classes. Do something to show off Salamander's good points. We all know that Jamil Viper's probably the best cook left in Temple Horizon, after all. If Kaz Brekker can sing and Leona can do dance...
[Okay, that last bit is just an effort to get a smile out of Airi.]
If you keep worrying about becoming so popular that you're going to end up getting targeted because they think you can take a hit that you end up making yourself unpopular enough to be targeted, though...
... I've thought about the healing thing. Especially now that they're starting to take away magic healing. Maybe Jamil could help us do something like a cookout.
[ she wipes at her eyes. ]
I'm sorry, we're supposed to be getting you taken care of and I'm...
[...Ah. She hadn't known. Too late to pull that back now.]
They've made their amends. From what I understand, Aloy had nearly her full list. She just needed a few things. She found someone, talked him into giving his ear up since going for more would have left him defenseless, and took it when he agreed. She didn't realize then that he had trauma related to it, or she probably wouldn't have gone for that.
But that's how Robin's Egg won the hunt. Without her efforts, Claudine would have had no cure, since she was too traumatized to continue after her encounter with Power and Shirou and Randy didn't seem to be doing much to help. And the rest of us... weren't there.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Re: slams back in here
Unless absolutely necessary or I tell Aloy you traumatized me.
Re: slams back in here
Traumatized?
[Dirty pool, Airi!]
Re: slams back in here
[ she jokes. but she leans into Tryse, and her voice becomes more serious. ]
I care about you, and it sucks seeing you hurt like this.
Re: slams back in here
Unless absolutely necessary, then.
I'm sorry.
Re: slams back in here
[ said like she's tried to make this point multiple times
(she has)
(goddammit Aloy) ]
Re: slams back in here
The funny thing is, normally I wouldn't suggest anything like this. I would outright refuse to sacrifice us for another team. Especially with Aloy and Claudine in the mix.
I don't mind sacrificing myself for Robin's Egg. But Cricket is no one to us. Granted, we had no reason to give them our worst card, save simple politics, but...
Re: slams back in here
[ with a final pat on Tryse's head, she pulls back to examine her leg. ]
Re: slams back in here
...I felt it was unfair that they were likely to get the worst results from every team. But that alone wouldn't have been enough to choose to risk sacrificing everyone.
[It was about the cultist. And Airi's made her opinion on that clear.
Tryse's leg, thankfully, won't require correction. Just a good splinting. Same for her arms.]
Re: slams back in here
I understand why you wanted to try. And I hope it worked. You can say I told you so as much as you want if it does.
[ she goes quiet for a moment, wrestling with herself. ]
When the Odyssey landed on Earth and the Zeniths took me on a mission for the first time, I was excited. I'd never been outside of my room before. They wouldn't let me see anything but... Still, I was excited to serve my purpose. I thought it was a good one, that I was meant to fix Gaia and save the planet, so life could be saved. My own...stupid idealized interpretation of my function.
The first people we encountered were natives. A tribe called the Tenakth. When we saw them, I expected... I don't know, really. Something good. An effort to establish contact with the new humanity.
Instead, they slaughtered the entire scouting party. Erik in particular took joy in doing it in the most brutal ways he could think of. It was...violent. Bloody. Completely inhuman, like the natives were no better than animals. And they did it to every group we found after that. Depending on who was assigned to me, sometimes it was less messy, but it was always horrific.
I had no connection to the new humanity. I'd never been around a single real person to develop any attachment or, I guess, anything to make them mean something to me. I hadn't been taught morals or right from wrong.
But at that moment, I knew what they were. And I knew it was bad. I knew they had to be stopped, even if there was no way to do it.
It only took one mission to see that.
It's been 105 days since the first people were brought here. There have been 37 games.
37 missions.
Re: slams back in here
[She listens, silently. The only thing she does do is move one of her bandaged hands to rest on Airi's shoulder.]
Feels like more, sometimes.
I'm not going to play like this again. This was the first, and only time. Unless he can sit there and tell us that he saw something, doing so would be pure foolishness. Too many people threw too much away.
Besides. Robin's Egg doesn't need a reputation for self-sacrifice. We don't need to be the one people go "It's okay, they'll bus themselves, so we can do it for them" about.
Re: slams back in here
...Do you think think they'd--
[ there is panic in her eyes, best doctor ever ]
Re: slams back in here
No.
[She's firm, but not aggressively so.]
...Not after a single game, anyway.
If we got a reputation for it, though... You know how some people vote Mouse, Finch, and Salamander down sometimes because that figure those three are popular enough to take a hit?
Imagine an unpopular team that has the appearance of being willing to take a hit.
Right now, we've sacrificed victory for Mouse in the hostage scenario. And while other members of the team haven't said anything, I still remember having to ask for Crow and Randy to be healed first. And that the only people to check on us afterwards were Hunter and Eddie, the other members didn't even bother to ask how we were.
And now this. But this one will be noticed by more people. They'll ask themselves why. It's here where we've got to make it clear that it isn't going to be a pattern.
Re: slams back in here
...Can I ask something that might seem a little rude? I don't mean it to be.
Re: slams back in here
I'm not exactly in a condition to kick you out. Feel free.
Re: slams back in here
Re: slams back in here
...In part.
Robin's Egg is often overlooked. Aloy feels this way, too. What we do for other people, like the greenhouse, often goes unnoticed or uncommented upon. Some of our offers are ignored simply because they're not instant, convenient fixes. We're not Mouse, with their vast powers and healers. We're not Finch, with their charisma. We don't scare people into not targeting us.
We put in work. But, like when we voted on the top ten teams, we were strictly middling. When it came time to vote for things like best, nicest, cutest, whatever teams, we didn't win a single category. It wasn't even close. Even a brand new team got a win. When our members are hurt, unless a family member steps in, we have to beg for help.
We're so close to being seen as the acceptable target. If we lost Donatello and Raphael, three teams would have no reason not to target us anymore. We can't make alliances with other teams, even with bonds of family and romance. No one will have us.
It's just... It feels like we're on the knife's edge. We don't win games. We don't win hearts. I don't want us to become expendable, and it feels like we're so close already. It would be different if other teams came to us afterwards, to check on us, alleviate the suffering we endure for their sake.
But individuals care. Teams don't.
Re: slams back in here
I didn't really think of it that way before, but I don't think you're wrong. If I ever get the chance, I'm going to push for an alliance with Egg, but...
[ will that chance ever come? who knows. ]
I'm surprised you don't play harder to make up for it, I think.
Re: slams back in here
There are members of Mouse who don't understand what an advantage they have. If they lost Paracelsus von Hohenheim, they'd probably plummet in the community's standings. And, I must admit, there's a small part of me who wants them to understand how sheltered they've been by Paracelsus and Catherine Foundling's presences.
You can try. And I know you're pushing for us to be hit less hard, and that's appreciated. But, as Jamil said, even the fact that he has, or had, two lovers on Robin's Egg and Aloy was a presence, you simply have too many teams to avoid targeting and he feels that we're acceptable.
Nevermind how many teams Robin's Egg has to play it soft around because our team has loved ones present on them. Mouse, Snail, Salamander, Chipmunk, Sparrow...
[She sighs, trying as best she can to lean against Airi. Her movement, though, is limited. That spidershell holding her captive.]
I think we should play harder. But there are members of our team who don't want to. They're afraid of what it would do to themselves to stop holding their worst impulses back during games. They want to be heroes. Or, like Claudine, the idea of being cruel to someone actively repulses them.
And me... I want to be someone that Claudine can feel good about loving. We can go hard without being cruel, but so many games demand cruelty to advance...
no subject
Because of the truce, the only team we explicitly agree to avoid is Finch. If Salamander and Finch kept feuding...it'd get out of control. It's why I chose to let what Yuzu did go.
Other than that, it's based on who's there and who the options are. We can't hold promises to avoid other teams entirely but we try when possible. Robin's Egg and Snail, right now, I think. I'm not sure if we're still trying to avoid Cricket. And Mouse is...
[ gesturing to indicate the conversation they were just having.
it's so complicated, especially with the recent coming and going.
she stands to support Tryse. ]
I wish I could give you advice, but I really don't know if it'd just be bad. From the sounds of it, some teams think Salamander is cruel. We protect ourselves first.
no subject
This is going to sound ungrateful and cruel of me, but Salamander's reputation for cruelty isn't entirely undeserved.
[She holds up a hand.]
Let me explain.
I've been here for sixteen games now, starting with the King game and ending with this fuck, marry, kill, consume nonsense. On my second game I watched a Salamander spend ten solid minutes, non-stop, breaking every bone in a Finch's body, and then crush her skull. The game didn't demand it. All he had to do was press a button. He did it because he wanted to. In the scavenger hunt, Salamander collected so many extra body parts that they earned a bonus prize for it. They didn't need to. They just did, just as their members needlessly tortured people who couldn't fight back during that game. In the angel dating game, they chose to send an extra harsh scenario towards Chipmunk, who was torn apart as a result. They didn't have to, there was no benefit to it. In the hostage scenario, Salamander kept going even after their hostages had their eyes gouged out, they were disemboweled, one lost a leg, and the other had been killed at least once. In the story game, Salamander won because one of their team violated someone's privacy that much.
Salamander's house is the only one with a moat, ominous black spikes, and it's elevated to put it above other houses. They're the only house that demands other teams pay tribute to enter it. When given the option for a boon, they chose an infinite supply of weaponry.
It sets a tone, Airi. I've been here for only a little over a month now, and all of that has happened within that month. And those are just the things I'm aware of.
In my time here, I've never heard of Salamander doing anything for the community. No greenhouse. No parties. No surprise gifts, as ridiculous as the underwear and the love letter deliveries were. No setting up a clinic or giving first aid lessons. I've never seen them help other teams after a bad game unless it's specific people tied to that specific Salamander by friendship or romance.
If your team made a concerted effort to behave as you do, helping others, reaching out, then perhaps their reputation wouldn't be as strong as it is. As it stands, though, it's a marvel you all don't have targets on your backs. People still consider you to be one of the most popular teams. You won the top ten most popular teams vote, though that was before the scavenger hunt.
There's protecting yourselves first, and no one can blame you for that. But then there's going overboard. And Salamander, from what I've seen, has a consistent record of going overboard.
I don't say this to hurt you. I'm just saying, from the outside looking in, that's what Salamander puts forth.
no subject
Kaz attacking Beatrice was a personal grudge that he was reprimanded for, and led to the truce because the rest of us thought it was wrong.
We had so many extra body parts because nine of us were playing, and most of us ended up with death hangovers because we were killed when we left the house. I decided that if we were going to have to do all of that, we needed to use every part. They said the more parts, the stronger the antidote. There are 78 organs in one human body alone. I can't make any justifications for what Power did, and I won't. That was wrong. But we didn't win the most brutal or cruelest or anything like that. Just number.
I won't try and justify the hostage game. I was there. It got out of control and I couldn't stop it. The story game win was in response to someone on Chipmunk invading a Salamander's privacy first.
The house is for safety and was reactionary. Because despite being told we're so popular, if we stop going hard for a game, everyone else decides we're popular enough to safely hit and we get torn apart. Or they say there's a truce only to team up with another team and destroy us in the first round. That was my second game. Before this scavenger hunt, before anything else that has happened. [ her voice cracks. ] Thanks to Finch we drowned in blood from the first round through the entire game. I can't swim. It was torture, for the entire time. And people just watched and laughed at us.
But no one blames Finch and Sparrow for that. No one says they're cruel or bad because they break truces and hurt us, or because Finch tortured Yuki before we got him back in a hostage game, or anything that's been done to us. If I told them Yuzu tortured me, they probably wouldn't care either. There's members of certain teams I'm sure would think it was funny. Salamander plays hard and wins, so it's okay to do anything to them. They deserve it. They're evil.
[ there's an edge of tears in her voice now, cracking with frustration. ]
It's easy to write us off if you just look at it from the outside. We get called bad for doing things in games that everyone else is doing. If we don't go hard, we get killed. We get betrayed and targeted and hurt, and then when we react, we're criticized for it. But no one cares that we're just trying to survive too. We have to protect ourselves because no one else is going to do it, no matter how popular they claim we are.
no subject
You're right. Aloy won most brutal by convincing someone to let her cut his ear off and activating a trauma she didn't realize he had.
[Not actually the case, but Tryse doesn't know about her encounter with Eddie.]
The house may be for safety, though considering no one can enter houses without your permission I'm a little curious as to how it helps, but it does lend an ominous feel to it.
The thing is, many of the reasons for those aren't known by the wider community. So, with repeated actions like that, without knowing that you've been responding to previous offenses or that members were acting as a rogues without approval, you can see why they'd start veering towards a negative opinion. Especially when they don't get a chance to know your team.
You might be able to turn it around, though. Reach out to the community more. Share resources. Offer healing. Throw a party. Offer classes. Do something to show off Salamander's good points. We all know that Jamil Viper's probably the best cook left in Temple Horizon, after all. If Kaz Brekker can sing and Leona can do dance...
[Okay, that last bit is just an effort to get a smile out of Airi.]
If you keep worrying about becoming so popular that you're going to end up getting targeted because they think you can take a hit that you end up making yourself unpopular enough to be targeted, though...
no subject
... I've thought about the healing thing. Especially now that they're starting to take away magic healing. Maybe Jamil could help us do something like a cookout.
[ she wipes at her eyes. ]
I'm sorry, we're supposed to be getting you taken care of and I'm...
[ wait.
WAITWAITWAIT. ]
...Aloy did what?
no subject
[...Ah. She hadn't known. Too late to pull that back now.]
They've made their amends. From what I understand, Aloy had nearly her full list. She just needed a few things. She found someone, talked him into giving his ear up since going for more would have left him defenseless, and took it when he agreed. She didn't realize then that he had trauma related to it, or she probably wouldn't have gone for that.
But that's how Robin's Egg won the hunt. Without her efforts, Claudine would have had no cure, since she was too traumatized to continue after her encounter with Power and Shirou and Randy didn't seem to be doing much to help. And the rest of us... weren't there.
no subject
[ but then, partway through she'd also had to worry about airi's death hangover, and her own after. ]
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